An interview with Tom Pope…
[Tom Pope is a fellow reviewer for Book Pleasures. He also has an alter ego as a writing teacher. He works with private clients and tutoring services and conducts fiction workshops for nonprofits such as the Langston Hughes Cultural Center. I thought it would be interesting to interview him about his work with aspiring writers. It’s a changing world in writing, and he’s seen it all.]
Steve: Describe your background, Tom, and what you’re doing now. In particular, why are you doing it, and do you find it rewarding?
Tom: I have a background in Political Science, which led to journalism that covered business trends in healthcare and the nonprofit world. My skills in writing transitioned to tutoring students in writing about history and literature. Those elements positioned me for seeing characters in a complex world structure of factions and forces. For example, when physicians wanted to create physician-hospital organizations, I immediately saw that one faction of doctors was forming to counter another faction of administrators. Viewing those elements allowed me to teach writing to authors about how their WIPs could be enhanced with background for the characters and pacing for the conflicts. Factions always design ideologies that try to determine whose social norms or forces strike a person.
Steve: As reviewers for Book Pleasures, we both write more extensive reviews than what one normally finds on Amazon, and we can probably agree on the basics and the personal rewards of doing so. As an ex-prof, I know working with young people can also be fun and rewarding as well as frustrating, but my experience was with math, science, and engineering students. Can we say it’s the same when teaching young people how to write?
Tom: We might not see much of a difference. In both cases, the fun and frustration can arise from the student who starts off being confused, but then sees a glimmer, and, with our help, finds a Eureka moment.
Steve: What goals should a writing program have? Tell us about yours. Does it meet those goals? How do students respond to it?
Tom: Students generally need to find those paths to imagination that could have been covered up by traditional thinking and norms. To find those paths, a program should help to take the student through some guided brainstorming based on the student’s verbal and written thoughts. Having said that, many students fear the complexity of dealing with a number of forces around their characters. The weight seems to be overwhelming.
I have found a generic outline system for parts of the novel writing process to help the students. A timetable to set up mini conflicts allows the writer to add pieces of the main conflict to form the entire conflict. But the outline doesn’t stop the writer from devising substitutes for any thought that evolves.
The goal is to find ways to add complexity, and also suspense. Setting up such a scheme also allows the writer to round out his world building because elements of the world are being added to the mini conflicts.
Example—dissect the problem of The Lord of the Rings. The conflict is over the power of the Ring. But we can ask further questions. How does that power influence others? Does it influence others in different ways? Do the Hobbits have a blocking spirit mechanism that could be applied by others. Is that originating in the way Hobbits see the world, or does the mechanism come from some magical plant in the Shire?
What if a time constraint was imposed on the Fellowship of the Ring where they had six months to stop Sauron’s Ring from enslaving the world? Maybe on the way they discover the Ring can be stopped because the engaging mechanism used by the Elfin creators has to be found before Sauron’s forces located it. They could find the spirit mechanism in Elrod’s home, but the spirit holder of a necklace was damaged. They could find that Saruman controls Wormtongue because the magician can repair the necklace. Meanwhile, the evil forces face obstacles too. The Nazgul leader’s plan to gain human support from the south is delayed because the Ring is not fully operational.
These are just a few ideas about adding some complexity to the conflict and world building.
Steve: If any writers in my reading audience want to teach writing, how should they prepare? What kind of personalities should they have? Isn’t teaching writing a wee bit like a priest acting as a marriage counselor? I can imagine teaching a course in music appreciation just because I’ve loved classical music since high school and can even follow scores pretty well. I couldn’t teach music composition, though. Is it enough for a writer to know the basic skills and be a serious and critical reader in order to teach writing courses? What do students expect?
Tom: To some degree, I’m using skills from journalism. Initially, I think like a detective and search for clues to what is happening to the protagonist. Curiosity goes beyond the obvious questions of Who, What, Why, When, and Where. Seek out why there is a major change happening now in the character’s life.
Use psychology. In a recent workshop, I helped a writer who wanted to show conflict between a perfectionist mother and her free-spirit daughter. Once I found out the writer wanted a link to an immigration story, I wanted to know when the mother became a perfectionist. Did it have something to do with being forced to leave her homeland? Was the oppression she faced there a force that framed her thinking about how to raise the daughter?
I didn’t think the idea of a quick reconciliation between the two could happen just through conversation. That led to the idea that the mother and daughter would have to travel back home for a funeral. During that trip, mother and daughter would have to spend time together outside their LA setting. That allowed for a change to occur within the mother.
Steve: As a reviewer, you probably are interested in particular genres. Do these interests carry over into your teaching? How do you handle a student interested in a particular genre that doesn’t interest you? More generally, how do you balance youthful idealism v. mature realism?
Tom: Youthful idealism can occur when writing a reality-based story. When a student shows such spirit, he or she can still produce a realistic novel. The idea is to transform that spirit by showing the real-life obstacles and how the protagonist’s ethics can counter the realism that hinders idealism.
For example, revealing a business cover-up runs into many inhibitions. But if the protagonist is surrounded by a team that can find ways around the obstacles, then that reality comes through.
The quest to deal with obstacles occurs in all genres. While I enjoy SF/F, mystery, and social dilemmas, I see the problems characters face as similar to those encountered in romance or other genres. Why does the love affair have to end? The person ending the affair is influenced by many pressures. What are they? Can we break apart the main reason for ending the affair and devise mini conflicts to make the story more engaging and different from other versions of the story?
The challenge for me is to work out a type of puzzle.
Steve: The writing business is more difficult now than ever before. For one, there are more writers (or, at least people who think they want to try). For another, the internet is morphing old jobs—reporters at newspapers and magazines—into new and perhaps not sharply defined positions where a steady salary and benefits aren’t easy to find. How do you prepare your students for this brave new world?
Tom: Writing shouldn’t let the business issue dominate the way they think. This would change the approach people have in planning what they want to write. The question becomes a barrier and a force that hinders creativity.
I advise writers to think about self-publishing where they can create their own public persona or brand through a creative website. Site development can be achieved even by those who lack deep HTML knowledge. And groups exist to help self-publishing writers network and draw viewers to their site.
Steve: Joe Konrath, Barry Eisler, and others are highly critical of legacy publishing. Donald Maass and many other agents are highly supportive. What are your thoughts on indies, i.e. writers who self-publish? We’re certainly not missing out on royalty percentages. Does legacy publishing offer anything to new or midlist authors? And, do you debate this in your classes?
Tom: I think the previous question led to a partial answer for this one. From the problems you mentioned already, I find that legacy publishing adds to problems writers face. The usual route offers a Catch 22. The agent will work with you if you have an editor. Your editor will work with you if you have an agent. And do you really expect us to help market your book?
With social networking and some clever outreach, the self-publisher can develop a following. These issues are on the minds of many students, although they aren’t sure how to develop the outreach.
Steve: I have the opinion, obviously biased, that many young people have nothing to write about, i.e. they have no life experiences to enhance their fiction. I realize that this isn’t just characteristic of young writers, but age certainly provides some life experiences. Am I wrong in this opinion? Can young writers involve me in a story if they’ve only been twenty-five years on this planet? (There’s a school in Colorado—I don’t remember the name, but I communicated once with one of the profs—where their study plan seems to share my opinion. Most MFA programs don’t.)
Tom: The answer is really dependent on the person. Some twenty-five-year-olds have followed the careers of pioneers like Sterling, Asimov, or Roddenberry and want to duplicate them in their own personal way. Other writers want to explore social issues, but might just see the surface of problems. As an example, assume protagonist Dwayne loses his store to gentrification. But the writer hasn’t fully thought out what else is happening in Dwayne’s live. Why is gentrification hitting his store in the present?
Steve: There are MFA and journalism programs. They don’t sound interchangeable, yet many journalists write very good fiction (Forsyth, for example). Which one better prepares fiction writers? Do modern programs do away with this classic bifurcation?
Tom: A link does exist. I don’t believe in writer’s block. When a writer feels that, it’s happening because not enough questions are being asked about the protagonist, friends, enemies, or the forces in play. Once the writer answers these questions, he thinks the block has dissolved. But maybe the real reason is that answering more questions gave the writer increased details. These questions arise from a journalistic type of thinking. Whether we deal with fiction or non-fiction, we need details.
Steve: Clearly cable and streaming video (NetFlix, Hulu, etc) are changing the way people watch TV. Will this changing landscape spell doom for books? Will it give writers a new media to work in? I can imagine a world where all writers of fiction are essentially screenwriters. How do you think this uncertain future will unfold?
Tom: The biggest change might be in how the story comes across. Narrative in the third person may suffer because the reader feels farther from the action. That could develop because of the visual impact of the screen. The screen might encourage more internal third person POVs to match its immediacy. The use of dialogue could also change to the point of a more quickly paced version. That would also coincide with screen influences.
Steve: I’ll put you on the spot here. Do you read mostly ebooks or pbooks? Please give your reasons.
Tom: I still like the feel of a book. Holding it establishes something like a surrounding nook that is reminiscent of that cozy Hobbit house.
Steve: I want to thank you, Tom, for participating and providing your candid opinions. I wish you much success with your writing students. They’re lucky to have you.
[Tom and I are presently engaged in a Socratic dialogue on fiction writing. Watch for the report on that…coming soon!]
In libris libertas….
